EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3


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Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.23 17:08:00 - [1] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK It's been said numerous times before. Swap the Brutix drone bay (100 m3) with the Thorax drone bay (200 m3) and you kill two birds with one stone. If the Thorax users want to whine about it, toss them either a dozen or so more m/s to their speed or a bit more powergrid. And this is the deal right here. The Vexor is a tier II cruiser, and it isn't the proper comparison. Seriously though, swap the drone bays on the Brutix and Thorax if anything.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.23 17:08:00 - [2] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK It's been said numerous times before. Swap the Brutix drone bay (100 m3) with the Thorax drone bay (200 m3) and you kill two birds with one stone. If the Thorax users want to whine about it, toss them either a dozen or so more m/s to their speed or a bit more powergrid. And this is the deal right here. The Vexor is a tier II cruiser, and it isn't the proper comparison. Seriously though, swap the drone bays on the Brutix and Thorax if anything. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Muad 'dib Wow big thread just for a little thorax. Well while reading through this i remeber seeing some1 quote that 8 heavy drones does around 170 dps. Well just for the record my rupture with 4x gyro IIs and 4x 720mm IIs does 200 dps. So any argument against the raxes drone bay nerf is null and void - Rax is overpowered and its the drone bay that does it. pro Rupture pilot with 8 mil in gunnery using ranged weapons 200 dps noob Thorax pilot with 800k in drones using just heavy drones 170 dps Its like the old raven when it comes to SP vs. output You can't shoot down a ranged weapon. I'd like to see this 170dps quantified. If the above numbers really are spot on, then yeah. Switching the space with the Vexor (which can put out less dps via weapons) starts looking approachable. Agree with the SiSi testing and less BS though.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Muad 'dib Wow big thread just for a little thorax. Well while reading through this i remeber seeing some1 quote that 8 heavy drones does around 170 dps. Well just for the record my rupture with 4x gyro IIs and 4x 720mm IIs does 200 dps. So any argument against the raxes drone bay nerf is null and void - Rax is overpowered and its the drone bay that does it. pro Rupture pilot with 8 mil in gunnery using ranged weapons 200 dps noob Thorax pilot with 800k in drones using just heavy drones 170 dps Its like the old raven when it comes to SP vs. output You can't shoot down a ranged weapon. I'd like to see this 170dps quantified. If the above numbers really are spot on, then yeah. Switching the space with the Vexor (which can put out less dps via weapons) starts looking approachable. Agree with the SiSi testing and less BS though. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 18:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean You can't shoot down a ranged weapon. You can't jam a drone. True, and I thought about NOS after I posted. Quote: a. thorax drone bay with ogres, 2 level 5 skills 1 level 3 skill (can't remember the ranks): 22 (drone damage) * 1.6 (damage mod) * 8 (number of drones) * 1.25 (skill) / 2 (ROF) = 176 dps. Flight times, target aquisitions, traversal modifiers, redeployment after destruction, lack of F1-F8 keys, etc. Those numbers would be if you could hit a button on an ogre and start hitting your target at optimal immediately. Its also all thermal on an ogre (which have the most to factor with regards to flight time), and the thorax isn't gonna be mixing and matching much...whereas a turret can switch it up. And not saying you aren't right - but the numbers pulled from the items/skills isn't all of it. Cheers!
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 18:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean You can't shoot down a ranged weapon. You can't jam a drone. True, and I thought about NOS after I posted. Quote: a. thorax drone bay with ogres, 2 level 5 skills 1 level 3 skill (can't remember the ranks): 22 (drone damage) * 1.6 (damage mod) * 8 (number of drones) * 1.25 (skill) / 2 (ROF) = 176 dps. Flight times, target aquisitions, traversal modifiers, redeployment after destruction, lack of F1-F8 keys, etc. Those numbers would be if you could hit a button on an ogre and start hitting your target at optimal immediately. Its also all thermal on an ogre (which have the most to factor with regards to flight time), and the thorax isn't gonna be mixing and matching much...whereas a turret can switch it up. And not saying you aren't right - but the numbers pulled from the items/skills isn't all of it. Cheers! --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Naughty Boy Oh, and just to add: 720mm t2 + 4 gyro t2 = 1104 pg; rupture with engineering 5 & RCU 2 = 1042 pg. That means that the advanced weapon upgrade skill is trained on top of all the level 5 skills to a high level and that there are still 3 mids & 2 high to fit. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. The Rupture with navi IV has a base speed of 240 I believe. Ogre is 700, optimal 1k/4k falloff. If a keep at distance is used on the things even at base speed it will take around 46 seconds to close a gap of around 26k into falloff and 56 seconds till the ogres are circling at optimal. By the time they close a rack of 720s should be able to pick off what, 5? If you add an MWD or AF and drop some dmg modding and whatnot, I simply fail to see the issue :/ Keep at distance. Kill drones, then swoop to the mothership. Which is why I say to test it on SiSi...the numbers look mean, but in practice a rupture should be keeping distance and destroying on the move.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Naughty Boy Oh, and just to add: 720mm t2 + 4 gyro t2 = 1104 pg; rupture with engineering 5 & RCU 2 = 1042 pg. That means that the advanced weapon upgrade skill is trained on top of all the level 5 skills to a high level and that there are still 3 mids & 2 high to fit. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. The Rupture with navi IV has a base speed of 240 I believe. Ogre is 700, optimal 1k/4k falloff. If a keep at distance is used on the things even at base speed it will take around 46 seconds to close a gap of around 26k into falloff and 56 seconds till the ogres are circling at optimal. By the time they close a rack of 720s should be able to pick off what, 5? If you add an MWD or AF and drop some dmg modding and whatnot, I simply fail to see the issue :/ Keep at distance. Kill drones, then swoop to the mothership. Which is why I say to test it on SiSi...the numbers look mean, but in practice a rupture should be keeping distance and destroying on the move. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:15:00 - [9] Quote: You know, mediums drones would be twice as fast, and bringing the drones into range is about as fast when mwd'ing. Besides, i believe that this very specific case would be yet another example of gank > tank when there is no plate involved, which isn't surprizing to me. Finally, in this example, the t2 rupture has more than 6 months of training, can't tank, has two empty high (i need confirmation on this), still aweful tracking... The thorax need 2 skills at level 5 (hull upgrades and drones) and a few level 4 (frig, ab, navigation, stuffs like that). True true - I was mostly trying to poke holes in the large scale dps numbers, which as far as I know would only be true with ogres deployed when right on top of the enemy. I don't dispute the rax is mean -- but its also the most expensive cruiser to purchase and its main weapons are out there waiting to be destroyed. Further, noone should be pounding on the thorax before they kill its drones - I think thats one of the things that eludes these formulatic methods of looking at the situation. At the end of the day I want to ensure that there is a truly viable drone platform out there under the HAC/BS level. Its why I originally said to shift it to the Brutix - but DrunkenOne asserts its the best BC going, and I defer to his knowing wtf - even if it looks gimped from the angle I see it from. The Vexor? Its a tier II cruiser, so mebbe if it was moved to tier III...I don't know. Making drones cost grid, or cap? Hehe, cans of worms.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:15:00 - [10] Quote: You know, mediums drones would be twice as fast, and bringing the drones into range is about as fast when mwd'ing. Besides, i believe that this very specific case would be yet another example of gank > tank when there is no plate involved, which isn't surprizing to me. Finally, in this example, the t2 rupture has more than 6 months of training, can't tank, has two empty high (i need confirmation on this), still aweful tracking... The thorax need 2 skills at level 5 (hull upgrades and drones) and a few level 4 (frig, ab, navigation, stuffs like that). True true - I was mostly trying to poke holes in the large scale dps numbers, which as far as I know would only be true with ogres deployed when right on top of the enemy. I don't dispute the rax is mean -- but its also the most expensive cruiser to purchase and its main weapons are out there waiting to be destroyed. Further, noone should be pounding on the thorax before they kill its drones - I think thats one of the things that eludes these formulatic methods of looking at the situation. At the end of the day I want to ensure that there is a truly viable drone platform out there under the HAC/BS level. Its why I originally said to shift it to the Brutix - but DrunkenOne asserts its the best BC going, and I defer to his knowing wtf - even if it looks gimped from the angle I see it from. The Vexor? Its a tier II cruiser, so mebbe if it was moved to tier III...I don't know. Making drones cost grid, or cap? Hehe, cans of worms. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com

Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Not only has the opposing voice in this thread not looked at concrete eveidence but is basing his motives on the description of the ship. Something has to be done to take either take 8 heavies out of the Rax's portfolio OR it needs to loose some turret points. You can't have both. Not sure who this lone opposing voice is...seems like there are many who support leaving the thorax as it is. Ignoring trolls is always a good idear. My frank opinion is that people look at the drone II's in the item database and get angry about the thorax because of perceived potential of the boats. That and plates have upped their role, but that is true across the board for cruisers. How many ruptures have you lost to a rax? Did you employ a tactic which kept distance and picked off the drones? I'd think a plate maller would have similar options, but could keep closer in. The Moa, thats another story - as it suffers from recent missile issues and lack of armor tanking goodness with the plates. But 1v1, does the rupture and maller get waxed - consistently, by the thorax? shrug
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Not only has the opposing voice in this thread not looked at concrete eveidence but is basing his motives on the description of the ship. Something has to be done to take either take 8 heavies out of the Rax's portfolio OR it needs to loose some turret points. You can't have both. Not sure who this lone opposing voice is...seems like there are many who support leaving the thorax as it is. Ignoring trolls is always a good idear. My frank opinion is that people look at the drone II's in the item database and get angry about the thorax because of perceived potential of the boats. That and plates have upped their role, but that is true across the board for cruisers. How many ruptures have you lost to a rax? Did you employ a tactic which kept distance and picked off the drones? I'd think a plate maller would have similar options, but could keep closer in. The Moa, thats another story - as it suffers from recent missile issues and lack of armor tanking goodness with the plates. But 1v1, does the rupture and maller get waxed - consistently, by the thorax? shrug --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Thorax with NOTHING fitted has 170dps. This number is greatly inflated real world, as I noted in earlier arguments. It is also counterable. Here is perhaps a difference between us. I have no qualms with the Thorax being a bit better ship than some of the other tier 3 cruisers. It has a higher base price. The question is, how much better is it really? If it is enough that people have no use to fly the other tier 3 cruises, then I'm all for swinging the nerf bat. If however, it is knee jerk, percieved ultra-superiority based on the item database and not real world usage - then I think it should be left the heck alone. Take plates out of the sitch.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Thorax with NOTHING fitted has 170dps. This number is greatly inflated real world, as I noted in earlier arguments. It is also counterable. Here is perhaps a difference between us. I have no qualms with the Thorax being a bit better ship than some of the other tier 3 cruisers. It has a higher base price. The question is, how much better is it really? If it is enough that people have no use to fly the other tier 3 cruises, then I'm all for swinging the nerf bat. If however, it is knee jerk, percieved ultra-superiority based on the item database and not real world usage - then I think it should be left the heck alone. Take plates out of the sitch. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:34:00 - [15] Originally by: j0sephine Why would the Thorax pilot give opponent chance of free pot shots at their drones in the first place, by deploying them before they have the target within suitable range and their speed under control..? True... Though if that is the case the rupture does have a higher base speed than the thorax...and while the thorax gets the mwd bennie, the rupture's guns use virtually no cap. Still comes down to keep range on the target, for that particular match up it seems to me.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:34:00 - [16] Originally by: j0sephine Why would the Thorax pilot give opponent chance of free pot shots at their drones in the first place, by deploying them before they have the target within suitable range and their speed under control..? True... Though if that is the case the rupture does have a higher base speed than the thorax...and while the thorax gets the mwd bennie, the rupture's guns use virtually no cap. Still comes down to keep range on the target, for that particular match up it seems to me. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Nomen Nescio So now suddenly 5x250mm rails and 5% damage bonus are somehow not enough to match the rupture 4x720s +5% rof +%5 damage? At 20km range? Thats kinda news for me. And its like what? 10% of a rupture firepower? 25% maybe? Because even HALF of drones dps will be around 100dps, so i think if you outgun poor rax with 200 dps TOTAL, then I have to have like 50 dps on my rails or something? 250 IIs = rate of fire 6.38, activation cost 10 720 IIs = rate of fire 15.75 sec, activation cost 1 In other words, the rails use up cap at around 30 times what the arty does. If both ships gain at around 2.8 energy per second, it would take what - six minutes of a fight and the thorax couldn't shoot. This assumes no tanking or whatnot, as fitting 5 med rails would prohibit that. All of which is moot though, people don't generally fit such a setup on a thorax in my experience. They fit small guns and tank, so at 20km you are dancing on them or they are warping out.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Nomen Nescio So now suddenly 5x250mm rails and 5% damage bonus are somehow not enough to match the rupture 4x720s +5% rof +%5 damage? At 20km range? Thats kinda news for me. And its like what? 10% of a rupture firepower? 25% maybe? Because even HALF of drones dps will be around 100dps, so i think if you outgun poor rax with 200 dps TOTAL, then I have to have like 50 dps on my rails or something? 250 IIs = rate of fire 6.38, activation cost 10 720 IIs = rate of fire 15.75 sec, activation cost 1 In other words, the rails use up cap at around 30 times what the arty does. If both ships gain at around 2.8 energy per second, it would take what - six minutes of a fight and the thorax couldn't shoot. This assumes no tanking or whatnot, as fitting 5 med rails would prohibit that. All of which is moot though, people don't generally fit such a setup on a thorax in my experience. They fit small guns and tank, so at 20km you are dancing on them or they are warping out. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 04:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Now you are outcaping thorax? Sure, hold its fire for just 6 minutes and the guns out of cap? LOL Yeah, hehe. Would you be happy if the vexor and thorax's bay were swapped?
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 04:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Now you are outcaping thorax? Sure, hold its fire for just 6 minutes and the guns out of cap? LOL Yeah, hehe. Would you be happy if the vexor and thorax's bay were swapped? --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com

Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:37:00 - [21] Quote: The comparison above is 4 720mm t2 VS 5 200mm t2 at 15000-17000m, 4 damage mod t2 each. I thought the rupture had six high slots? If 4 720s/heavys arent able to be fit, bring it down to 650s. It sounds much like many folks here will veto any drone bay at 200 on a cruiser. I think you could remove 3 highslots on the thorax, or move the space to the vexor and you'd still have this from some. Suggest you get some compromise sorta mindset, or these threads will continue for eons. As that video showed us - a big part of the issue comes from not shooting the drones. That doesn't get factored into the equations. The issue to me is that the thorax has the ability to gank with med guns along with the drones - though with plates in vogue people aren't gonna do that very often. I've come around to the idea of swapping drone bays on the vexor and thorax...but leaving the eve universe devoid of a cruiser with 200? No. Sorry.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:37:00 - [22] Quote: The comparison above is 4 720mm t2 VS 5 200mm t2 at 15000-17000m, 4 damage mod t2 each. I thought the rupture had six high slots? If 4 720s/heavys arent able to be fit, bring it down to 650s. It sounds much like many folks here will veto any drone bay at 200 on a cruiser. I think you could remove 3 highslots on the thorax, or move the space to the vexor and you'd still have this from some. Suggest you get some compromise sorta mindset, or these threads will continue for eons. As that video showed us - a big part of the issue comes from not shooting the drones. That doesn't get factored into the equations. The issue to me is that the thorax has the ability to gank with med guns along with the drones - though with plates in vogue people aren't gonna do that very often. I've come around to the idea of swapping drone bays on the vexor and thorax...but leaving the eve universe devoid of a cruiser with 200? No. Sorry. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:15:00 - [23] Quote: No. There is just a need for people to acknowledge this simple logic: * remove the plates, keep the drone bay: Tanking becomes useless against, back to ganking area. Blaster range is doomed, navigation is useless as when you are moving, you are not doing damage and you die. The heavy drones are useless for a thorax that will die in 20 seconds, when getting hammered from outside 15km. Thorax is doomed, and that's with its drone bay untouched. * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. I agree with the second one. Removing it outright is absolutely over the top. Quote: If you remove the plates, no close range cruiser will ever be able to shoot 8 heavy drones, do you understand that ? Close range thorax in a plate-free world will beat any close range cruiser. incidentally, it will die to gank setups, as every other close range cruiser. We will only see cruisers in mid range gank setup. If the thorax is wearing light weapons, thats just not the case. Especially slow traversing ogres. Wish you would try it :/ Quote: I think that you didn't factor in the equation that other cruisers also would lose the plate. Ok ? No - tbh I didn't factor in loss of plate to the game, since it won't happen. As you mentioned up above, longer battles == better. The plates have increased the role of cruisers and battlecruisers across the board. Give them all a speed shot in the arm and they are starting to be a very attractive platform. It keeps gate ganks from outright slaughtering noobs as often. Etc. On the whole I support plates, but that is another argument, for another mindlessly long thread. Quote: As i showed in another post at your request, swapping the vexor and the thorax drone bay will make the vexor bonus useless and the thorax will lose around 25% of its drone damage, which isn't very much (but still something). If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. Brass tacks. Nerfing the thorax down to a 50 drone bay, I don't see that ever happening. Nerfing the thorax drone bay without shifting the volume to another gallente ship, equally not happening. Proceed from there towards a solution that makes sense.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:15:00 - [24] Quote: No. There is just a need for people to acknowledge this simple logic: * remove the plates, keep the drone bay: Tanking becomes useless against, back to ganking area. Blaster range is doomed, navigation is useless as when you are moving, you are not doing damage and you die. The heavy drones are useless for a thorax that will die in 20 seconds, when getting hammered from outside 15km. Thorax is doomed, and that's with its drone bay untouched. * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. I agree with the second one. Removing it outright is absolutely over the top. Quote: If you remove the plates, no close range cruiser will ever be able to shoot 8 heavy drones, do you understand that ? Close range thorax in a plate-free world will beat any close range cruiser. incidentally, it will die to gank setups, as every other close range cruiser. We will only see cruisers in mid range gank setup. If the thorax is wearing light weapons, thats just not the case. Especially slow traversing ogres. Wish you would try it :/ Quote: I think that you didn't factor in the equation that other cruisers also would lose the plate. Ok ? No - tbh I didn't factor in loss of plate to the game, since it won't happen. As you mentioned up above, longer battles == better. The plates have increased the role of cruisers and battlecruisers across the board. Give them all a speed shot in the arm and they are starting to be a very attractive platform. It keeps gate ganks from outright slaughtering noobs as often. Etc. On the whole I support plates, but that is another argument, for another mindlessly long thread. Quote: As i showed in another post at your request, swapping the vexor and the thorax drone bay will make the vexor bonus useless and the thorax will lose around 25% of its drone damage, which isn't very much (but still something). If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. Brass tacks. Nerfing the thorax down to a 50 drone bay, I don't see that ever happening. Nerfing the thorax drone bay without shifting the volume to another gallente ship, equally not happening. Proceed from there towards a solution that makes sense. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:20:00 - [25] Quote: If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. I didn't think that out well - but anyway, adjust the vexor bonuses to match a 200-225ish drone bay.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:20:00 - [26] Quote: If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. I didn't think that out well - but anyway, adjust the vexor bonuses to match a 200-225ish drone bay. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? Ok, so why would thorax need more drones then rupture? Argument about approach is totaly useless. I can say that rupture fitted with ac and thorax is with rails, and count how much damage i'll do with rails before rupture catches up. Once again Rupture and thorax are good long range Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range? Well if you are comparing a droneless thorax to a rupture....as I said before, arty takes no cap. Fit two small reppers rather than a couple of damage mods and you obviously can outcap the rax. Granted, the rupture would be hard pressed to solidify the kill - but that would work both ways and is always the case with long range salvos. Better to argue the issue on what is most commonly used on the 'rax, today - with plates in the game as thats what we have to deal with. That means small guns, blasters most likely. A 1600 plate, three hardners, a repper, web, scram, and an MWD. I'm sure there are a couple rax pilots fitting medium rails out there, but really now - have you ever been nailed by such a setup in a rupture? I'd be all for taking that 100m3 of dronespace and shifting it to the vexor though. 250m3 on that ship would bring it into play as much as the stabber. Haha, theres the thread. Nerf the stabber!
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? Ok, so why would thorax need more drones then rupture? Argument about approach is totaly useless. I can say that rupture fitted with ac and thorax is with rails, and count how much damage i'll do with rails before rupture catches up. Once again Rupture and thorax are good long range Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range? Well if you are comparing a droneless thorax to a rupture....as I said before, arty takes no cap. Fit two small reppers rather than a couple of damage mods and you obviously can outcap the rax. Granted, the rupture would be hard pressed to solidify the kill - but that would work both ways and is always the case with long range salvos. Better to argue the issue on what is most commonly used on the 'rax, today - with plates in the game as thats what we have to deal with. That means small guns, blasters most likely. A 1600 plate, three hardners, a repper, web, scram, and an MWD. I'm sure there are a couple rax pilots fitting medium rails out there, but really now - have you ever been nailed by such a setup in a rupture? I'd be all for taking that 100m3 of dronespace and shifting it to the vexor though. 250m3 on that ship would bring it into play as much as the stabber. Haha, theres the thread. Nerf the stabber! --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:49:00 - [29] Quote: Congratulation, you find a specific theoretical setup (that isn't viable either) that would beat a thorax in a 1 vs 1. Now, nobody said that the thorax was overpowered by such a margin that you couldn't find a specific to kill it. Sorta like talkin about a present day thorax pilot loading a full rack of med rails, or anyone with a pulse shooting at the thorax with 720s instead of the drones, or fighting a thorax at close range with 720s to begin with, or any of the other nifty stuff in this thread
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:49:00 - [30] Quote: Congratulation, you find a specific theoretical setup (that isn't viable either) that would beat a thorax in a 1 vs 1. Now, nobody said that the thorax was overpowered by such a margin that you couldn't find a specific to kill it. Sorta like talkin about a present day thorax pilot loading a full rack of med rails, or anyone with a pulse shooting at the thorax with 720s instead of the drones, or fighting a thorax at close range with 720s to begin with, or any of the other nifty stuff in this thread --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com

Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean Sorta like talkin about a present day thorax pilot loading a full rack of med rails, or anyone with a pulse shooting at the thorax with 720s instead of the drones, or fighting a thorax at close range with 720s to begin with, or any of the other nifty stuff in this thread . I know, i find all this quite annoying to be honest. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Better than arguing about politics
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:56:00 - [32] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean Sorta like talkin about a present day thorax pilot loading a full rack of med rails, or anyone with a pulse shooting at the thorax with 720s instead of the drones, or fighting a thorax at close range with 720s to begin with, or any of the other nifty stuff in this thread . I know, i find all this quite annoying to be honest. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Better than arguing about politics --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com

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